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| Sharon's son Denny | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 20 Feb 2015, 16:34 (11,964 Views) | |
| Katie | 1 Aug 2015, 16:48 Post #101 |
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I definitely don't see the need to get rid of him. I think the character has got a lot of potential for the future, and his relationship with Phil could be interesting assuming Steve McFadden sticks around for about the next seven years. I don't think he needs his own storyline at the moment, especially alongside Bobby killing Lucy. I'm sure we'll see him when Gavin and Kathy arrive, and I don't see the need for a re-cast at the moment. I like Sharon's scenes with Ben and Jay, and she can have those kind of scenes with Denny when he's few years older. |
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| The Other Slater Cousin | 1 Aug 2015, 16:51 Post #102 |
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I worry sometime there might just be a complete curveball and Steve McFadden will quit. We just assume we have him for good, but he's contemplated leaving before... |
| "I loved it in the Olden Days because you talked more. There’s more action now. You know, we would do scenes in the Rovers of me, Bet and Doris Speed with a cup of coffee each before we opened the pub, talking about absolute rubbish. But it was something, and it was what people do." - Betty Driver | |
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| Jade | 1 Aug 2015, 17:12 Post #103 |
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I would have preferred Denny to have been Grant's. He was conceived afterall when the Mitchell brothers were there in 2005, Dennis and Sharon were arguging lots. Only because of the impact on Sharon and Phil now and how he would feel being a step father to his brother's child. The implications on Sharon and Dennis themselves. Would he have wanted that baby? Sharon would not have aborted it that time considering she didn't think she could have children. Drama. Legacy babies are not really that important to me as much as what does it actually bring these things would have brought an impact. Otherwise a few years time the square will be one place full of inbreeding. Not realistic nor Julia's vision. Had most of Sharon's family not died I would not minded killing him off. But Sharon and family dying on her has been done to death, Sharon grieving has been done to death. So I don't really want that if she had lots of family it wouldn't be so bad but she is isolated at the best of times. Recast some blonde kid who can act and have the casting process involving Letitia herself. She gets on great with so many kids past and present its like he is the exception to the rule. |
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Your approval is neither desired nor required. Julia Smith "We decided to go for a realistic, fairly outspoken type of drama which could encompass stories about homosexuality, rape, unemployment, racial prejudice, etc., in a believable context. Above all, we wanted realism". | |
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| Mr Branning | 1 Aug 2015, 17:16 Post #104 |
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I can't see Steve McFadden quitting for a long period of time. He's fantastic as Phil but he's not going to get much work beyond that. I always find the snobbery towards staying in a soap job long term really weird considering loads of people stay in the same job for their whole working life. I also think DTC's team get Phil. He does terrible things but he's still just a family man looking out for his pack and I've felt that more under this era than any other. Peggy leaving has helped a lot too. Denny wise, he's a great asset for Sharon but not for another 10 years or so. For now, he's much more useful as a 'not seen, not heard' character until he's old enough to be recast/hold a storyline. Sharon was at her worst during her overprotective mum routine in 2013. |
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| Mrs Peel | 1 Aug 2015, 17:48 Post #105 |
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His father was a pretty man, so they went for the cute factor with the son.
Dennis Mitchell is the American Dennis the Menace, the main character in a well-known comic strip, which was also a television show in the 60s and the film with Walter Matthau, who played his nemesis neighbour Mr Wilson. People forget that when he and Sharon rocked up in the Square, they, literally, were all each other had. His father and grandfather were dead, and Sharon's sister was half-a-world away. Seriously, they were each other's only blood relative, because Sharon had had no contact nor relevance with her Hanley siblings. Now she's about to get another blood relative into her dynamic, and Gavin may even have children dotted about. I found it believable that she'd be overly-protective of the kid, but with Den and Gavin as his grandfathers and having been raised by Phil, he'll be nobody's fool. In ten years' time, he'll be calling the shots to Ben and Jay. |
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| Dave Sullivan | 1 Aug 2015, 18:12 Post #106 |
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I suspect Denny will come back into focus when the reveal of Gavin Sullivan being his biological maternal grandfather as Gavin will want to know Sharon's child, after all he's searched for Sharon for the majority of the last 40 years. On whether or not we'll meet members of the Sullivan family beyond Gavin himself: the likelihood is that he'll probably have some other children around but suspect we'll learn more about Gavin's generation i.e siblings or cousins and his parents as I imagine this story is going to go to the root of Walford's criminal underworld and why Gavin was absent from Sharon's life. |
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| Mrs Peel | 1 Aug 2015, 18:15 Post #107 |
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I concede that giving Sharon Dennis's baby was probably a sop to the Shannistas, but the big mistake was having her abort Grant's child when she originally conceived back in the 90s. Having her abort his child was one big lot of codswallop. Sharon would never have done that, and so much more of an impact would have been achieved, Grant or no Grant, had she returned in 2001, with Grant's son. That would have entailed a real Mitchell tug-of-war. An even bigger mistake was having her supposedly rendered infertile as a result of the abortion. Unless she had a late-term abortion, even more traumatic and illegal in Florida, the procedure is virtually fool-proof for having complications, and Sharon was living in a litiginous country. She could have and should have taken the clinic to the cleaners and have been a wealthy woman. Having said that, Sharon sleeping with Grant behind Dennis's back, getting pregnant and passing the child off as Dennis's would not only have been duplitious and totally outside Sharon's character arc, but it would also have been too much of a mundane soap opera trick. She really shouldn't have had a child at all, once they established the fact that she couldn't have kids, for whatever reason. FWIW, I don't think, had Dennis lived and the couple remained on the show, they would have lasted. Dennis was a weak man, and Sharon spoke to him, most of the time, as if he were a child. She speaks to Denny in much the same way, and a lot of times, Dennis reacted like a spoiled kid, himself.
Melodrama.
I totally disagree with that. Are you saying that the show should plough out one lot of characters after five years or so and bring in a slew of new people? This is the process of life. People are born, they mature and marry, many leave their homes or the area in which they grew up and many don't. They procreate. DTC recognised that the show was very thin on the ground when it came to long-term established characters - the Butchers are now extinct, the Brannings and Slaters, once power-families, have been reduced to next to nothing. Until James Bye was recast as Martin, the Fowlers consisted of Sonia, who did nothing but trashmouth the family and was only a relative by marriage. DTC took a huge risk in killing off Lucy Beale and Nick Cotton, massive legacy characters, and we've watched Lucy from birth. At least he's trying to re-build family units. As far as the Fowlers were concerned, Martin was the only feasible family member who could return. Susan Tully doesn't act anymore, and Todd Carty's character had been killed off. At the moment, Stacey is the last Slater standing. They've tied Old Walford to Millennial Walford in two ways - Martin and Stacey and Peter and Lauren, both couples having babies. I can't see the sense in saying legacy babies aren't important. If their families endure, they are the future; and where does this "inbreeding" come into play? The only instance of that is centred around the Butcher/Jacksons and the Brannings and, tenuously, their relationship with the Beales. Sonia is Liam's aunt, but she's also his first cousin once removed by marriage. Pat was both Ricky's step-mother and grandmother-in-law. She was also Liam's and Tiffany's great-grandmother and step-grandmother. Other than that, there's been no inbreeding as such.
Sorry, but weren't you the one who used to defend the child who played Denny to the hilt from people making cruel and personal remarks about him? In truth, we haven't seen enough of him in recent months to know how good or bad an actor he really is. Apart from Eliot Carrington, none of the child actors on the show are anything to write home about, and they are scarcely seen. The last time we saw NuAmy, Ronnie was still in hospital. We seldom see any of the young children, except for Bobby Beale, but he's the centrepiece of a major storyline. Everyone knew Sharon would be an isolated character the moment she returned, and many people thought there would be a re-connection with her birth family, but it's been a stroke of genius, this time, to re-connect her to her birth father, who will even more firmly entrench her into the Beale and Mitchell dynamic. I daresay Denny will be re-cast at some point, and Sharon was never meant to be a tragic heroine. Blame John Yorke for that one. He got that totally wrong. Actually, Sharon not getting on with her own child and bonding better with other young people in her family dynamic, is simply the continuance of an EastEnders' tradition. Pat, Dot and even Shirley had broken relationships with their sons, yet bonded and did well as surrogate/step-parents with other people's children. Edited by Mrs Peel, 1 Aug 2015, 18:17.
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| Jade | 1 Aug 2015, 18:51 Post #108 |
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I haven't got the time to address all your points. But I want to clarify one thing I wasn't defending anyone on his acting or how much of a brat he was. I was defending personal remarks about judging children on how they look. Something I do think is wrong to do especially to children. Coming from adults in fact I find incredibly creepy, if he looked unhealthy I might agree but he doesn't. Some where making out he looks like a girl saw that thus must be gay (which was meant in an offensive way thus bigotry to those communities as well, making jokes about gay people and using a child is disgusting I see those comments a few times on DS). That doesn't mean I like his acting. I did the same to Masie Smith. I couldn't stand the acting at all but personal remarks about her appearance in my view is a no no. So of course I would defend those points. That doesn't mean I didn't think either should have been actors on EE. Big difference. Of course Legacy babies are important to some extent but I am interested that there is a valid plot reason then let just tie this family to that one. I also didn't say there was loads of inbreeding NOW just if all babies were legacy babies from the old families then when they grow up they will only have their own families to breed in hence the inbreeding comment. I think its important to have a balance. The rest is difference of opinion which of course a forum is all about. |
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Your approval is neither desired nor required. Julia Smith "We decided to go for a realistic, fairly outspoken type of drama which could encompass stories about homosexuality, rape, unemployment, racial prejudice, etc., in a believable context. Above all, we wanted realism". | |
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| The Other Slater Cousin | 1 Aug 2015, 19:04 Post #109 |
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I've said it before, but Sharon and Denny, in my mind, are bound to end up a bit like Pat and David. We know he envied his mum because she wasn't there for him enough when he was young. With Sharon, we have seen her be overbearing, but also so blinded by her love for him that she dismisses all the badness that he does, just like Dot was with Nick. Denny will grow to rebel and resent against his mother, and Phil I'm sure. Sharon isn't a natural mother, and it's clear to see. For that very reason, I don't see why anyone would want the character killed off when him simply existing sets up another 30 years worth of stories for Sharon. Earlier today I was watching some Gail and David scenes from 2007. That twisted and dark relationship they had could easily be similar to what Sharon and Denny have. He'll hit his teenage years and we will see how much of his grandfather and father he has in him. Violent? Cunning? Manipulative? I wouldn't like him to be a villain, but a flawed young man, angry at the world. Jealous of his mother's relationship with her surrogate children. Angry that he never met his father. Lost. The Anti-Hero who EastEnders has excelled in portraying. There's such a vast and exciting range of directions this character could go in. To even suggest killing him off simply because he's in those lost years currently is beyond short-sighted. |
| "I loved it in the Olden Days because you talked more. There’s more action now. You know, we would do scenes in the Rovers of me, Bet and Doris Speed with a cup of coffee each before we opened the pub, talking about absolute rubbish. But it was something, and it was what people do." - Betty Driver | |
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| Michelle Fowler,Ice Skater | 1 Aug 2015, 19:40 Post #110 |
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Denny is going to be the next rebel |
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| The Other Slater Cousin | 1 Aug 2015, 19:53 Post #111 |
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What could be very interesting in the future is drawing parallels between Bobby and Denny and their relationships with their mothers. Denny would have a strained and tempered relationship with Sharon. Always fighting and disagreeing, but with that underlying yearning from both of them to have the mother-son relationshup each of them want. Compared to Bobby and Jane having a seemingly normal and happy set up, with that dark twisted lie running just under the surface. Bobby not knowing what he did that night and Jane concealing that secret from the world. A timebomb. It would be such a complex exploration of how deceptive appearances can be. |
| "I loved it in the Olden Days because you talked more. There’s more action now. You know, we would do scenes in the Rovers of me, Bet and Doris Speed with a cup of coffee each before we opened the pub, talking about absolute rubbish. But it was something, and it was what people do." - Betty Driver | |
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| Mrs Peel | 1 Aug 2015, 23:50 Post #112 |
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As obnoxious as he can be, Denny is nowhere near as bad as Bobby. Denny's problem has been the lack of a male role model in his life. As a result of this, he's had a mother who overcompensated with him, but who also blows hot and cold with the kid. She was all over the kid, until she came back to Walford and sank her teeth into running, first the R and R, and then The Albert. She was more involved in those ventures than she was in her son's life. He felt this, as well as feeling the lack of a male role model in his life. She couldn't even tell him the truth about his father, instead making up a fairy story about him being a heroic helicopter pilot who died in the line of duty, when Dennis was really a vicious punk and thug who'd actually murdered someone. That's Dennis's real father. His paternal grandfather was a small-time dodgy landlord of an EastEnd boozer who got way in over his head with the local crime sindicate, which was, most likely run by the family or relatives of the man who's about to be introduced as his maternal grandfather, and who doesn't sound like a very nice man. We've been given to understand that he adores his stepfather and male role model, Phil Mitchell. He'll be a willing pupil for Phil. When Phil appeared after a long time away and Sharon was at Ian's, Dennis was over the moon to see him. This was the day he'd smacked Sharon in the face, something that didn't faze Phil in any way, because both of Peggy's sons, as well as her husband, had been wont to give her the odd clout. Bobby's problems are anger-related and, I would think, a lot to do with mother issues. Bobby doesn't remember his birth mother, obviously; but he knows that Jane is his adoptive mother. Usually around this time, a kid like that would start to ask questions about their birth mother, but we've heard no inkling of curiosity from Bobby. Indeed, a few years back, when Ian was with Mandy, Bobby had to make a family tree for his school project. I remember there was a shot of the finished product on the table, and Ian had made some "alterations," such as blacking Laura's face out - Laura being Bobby's birth mother - and writing "BITCH" all over the picture of Mel Owen. Jane adopted Bobby, and yet when she and Ian divorced, Jane made no attempt to gain custody of the child, something to which she was entitled. Instead, she left for a job in Wales and rarely saw him until she rocked back up in Walford in time to undermine Denise. Funny, I was just remembering when Ian was with Mandy. There was a scene in the chippy where Bobby was sitting on the bench waiting for Ian - Alex Francis's Bobby. Lucy came in and sat with him, and she immediately started trash-mouthing Mandy. Bobby told her to shut up, that he liked Mandy because Mandy made Ian happy, and when Ian was happy, he was happy. |
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| Amazee-Dayzee | 2 Aug 2015, 04:50 Post #113 |
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I'm of the opinion that Denny should have been the child that Sharon aborted and Michelle should have never gotten pregnant by Grant in the first place. Mark II is never gonna ever be shown on the program and I don't think Ross Kemp will be back either so its a moot point. |
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| Mrs Mitchell | 2 Aug 2015, 13:09 Post #114 |
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LandLady.
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I think a mini Sharon is missing. |
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| Swirly | 2 Aug 2015, 19:12 Post #115 |
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I'm glad Sharon has Denny and think there is a lot of potential for him in the future. I'm more than happy for Denny to appear once in a while and nothing more until he's a bit older which is when the relationship will become far more interesting and as we have seen with Jay/Abi and Ben Sharon is a much better mother figure to a young adult than a child. I think how over protective she has is relaistic I mean it is no wonder considering how his dad died and that Denny was the only family she had for a long time plus the only connection she had left to Dennis but the way the storyline played out with him being a nightmare just ruined what could have been potentially a good little side storyline....what we needed was Sharon to realise how horrid he was being. Luckily now she has (not that that has been addressed recently) And yes as a Shannis fan I was more than happy that Denny was Dennis'. |
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| Mrs Peel | 2 Aug 2015, 23:44 Post #116 |
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It's only since Maisie Smith started on the show as Tiffany (EastEnder's appalling answer to the equally appalling Simon Barlow) that the show's featured children under the age of 12 expected to deliver dialogue. Previously, this was a rarity. The first Vicki Fowler had limited dialogue, which she delivered badly; the 7 year-old Beale twins just smiled at the camera, and neither Martin Fowler nor Steven Beale spoke before they were twelve. Sonia blew a trumpet, and Billy never spoke. When the other Amy was prominent on the show, she didn't say a word and was carried around like a much younger child. We haven't seen her successor for months, and the kid playing her simply shouts her limited lines. I'm OK not seeing these kids front and centre. EastEnders seems to forget about children in general as well, from time to time. How often have we seen Patrick, Kim, Vincent and Denise in the Vic, without Pearl, and wondered who was minding the baby? Denny will re-surface, no doubt, when Gavin makes known who he really is to Sharon. Just think of the kid's pedigree - son of Dennis Rickman, grandson of Den Watts and Gavin Sullivan, raised by Phil Mitchell. |
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| Planck | 3 Aug 2015, 18:26 Post #117 |
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What about Abi? |
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| Mrs Mitchell | 3 Aug 2015, 20:57 Post #118 |
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LandLady.
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| Mrs Peel | 3 Aug 2015, 23:35 Post #119 |
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Abi is nothing like Sharon ever was. Sharon may have been spoiled by her parents, but she was never petty or vindictive. Abi is a hybrid of Tanya the Material Girl and the Branning selfishness. |
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| Christina | 3 Aug 2015, 23:41 Post #120 |
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Spot on Mrs Peel! |
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7:49 PM Jul 11