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| Episode discussion - Thursday 13th August 2015 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 13 Aug 2015, 16:03 (7,981 Views) | |
| Christina | 13 Aug 2015, 22:52 Post #41 |
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Actually that's true. Didn't think of that. |
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| Mrs Peel | 13 Aug 2015, 22:53 Post #42 |
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I didn't think they cackled over Dean at all. In fact, they acknowledged the fact that Dean was a rapist. Ronnie wanted information from Sharon about what Linda had told her, and Sharon wouldn't reveal the confidence. Both agreed that they believed Dean was a rapist, and Sharon opined how she thought a rapist should be punished, but simply advised Ronnie to make friends with the enemy in order to find his weaknesses. But at the end of the day, Dean is a loser. Any man who rapes a woman is a loser. |
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| Christina | 13 Aug 2015, 22:59 Post #43 |
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Yeah what Sharon did was sensible and clever. As you said not breaking her friends confidence, she knew what Ronnie wanted and wasn't taking the bait, she gave her view but didn't force Ronnie to agree with her either, that was just Sharon's opinion. Also by giving a Ronnie an idea, it let's Ronnie then do what she wants with the information while staying out of it herself. Yep Dean is a loser and that's putting it nicely. Edited by Christina, 13 Aug 2015, 23:00.
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| John Boy | 13 Aug 2015, 23:01 Post #44 |
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I hope not.
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| John Boy | 14 Aug 2015, 00:06 Post #45 |
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We won't have a cast left soon.
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| John Boy | 14 Aug 2015, 00:09 Post #46 |
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Good episode tonight. Laurie nailed the episode yet again. Carol can just stare in silence and be amazing. I hope Ronnie does get rid of Dean. No sympathy for Squeal Beale. Liam would not do this to his uncle or his Nan. No way! 8/10 |
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| pugg | 14 Aug 2015, 04:52 Post #47 |
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If I may add one to the list Fuck off Shirley.
Edited by pugg, 14 Aug 2015, 04:52.
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| If you always want what you can't have, what do you want when you can have anything? | |
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| Desdemona | 14 Aug 2015, 06:55 Post #48 |
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Average episode but it is a pleasure to see Ronnie back on form. The opening scene with a snoring Charlie getting on her nerves signalled that she is on the war path and the way she confronted Dean in the salon was simply sublime. Great scene with Sharon too. About time we see the resident rapist rattled. |
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| Mrs Peel | 14 Aug 2015, 09:30 Post #49 |
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The murderer should be next. Ronnie is actually no better than Dean. Both of these characters, each of whom shows absolutely no remorse for the havoc they've wreaked, need just punishment. They both, simply, need to die. The courts of justice are not for Ronnie; she has no respect for them at all and because of the number of people she's involved in the cover-up of her killing of Carl White would also be liable to prosecution - Phil, Roxy,Sharon, Shirley and Charlie. There are two major murder cover-ups on the Square at the moment, plus a rapist swanning around. As Phil has said, Ronnie is a liability for the Mitchell family. This character doesn't empower women at all; instead, she's the worst aspect of a woman's nature. However bad her nemeses have been, she has no right to play God and determine anyone's fate, according to her warped sense of entitlement. |
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| Lord Les | 14 Aug 2015, 09:38 Post #50 |
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About time the resident murderer rattled too. |
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| Desdemona | 14 Aug 2015, 10:36 Post #51 |
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There is a big difference between a rapist and a survivor of male (sexual) violence who kills in self defense and/or to protect her loved ones. EE presents us with different perspectives/reactions to male violence and Ronnie's confrontational/aggressive stance is the most controversial and emotionally satisfying one for me. Whether we like it or not, justice went out of the window a long time ago in EE as we have witnessed for some time now in the Lucy murder storyline and Linda's rape. Detectives are shown to be incompetent and/or immoral, innocent people are locked up and the perpetrators (Dean and Bobby) go unpunished, all in the name of drama and/or realism. |
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| Mrs Peel | 14 Aug 2015, 11:42 Post #52 |
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Ronnie didn't kill Carl in self-defence. When she whacked him with the champagne bottle the previous night in his flat, yes, that was self-defence; but when she killed him, she caught him by surprise from behind as he was loading the car he was taking. That's a bit Jesse-James-y. She then callously disposed of his body. Was he a good man? No, but at the end of the situation, he wasn't trying to rape her, he was taking Phil's money and leaving. In fact, it could be argued that she actually expected him to return after having been escorted to the tube station by her and Phil, because she was totally disgusted that Phil couldn't or wouldn't finish him off. In point of fact, man or woman, I don't think there is ever an excuse for anyone to kill another person, unless it truly is an act of self-defence and your life really is in danger. Even Stacey tried the line about having killed Archie in self-defence (she didn't), when she was trying to justify what she had done to Luke, and when that lie was exposed, she said she killed him because he'd raped her. As Luke said, that didn't give her the right to kill. Ronnie's behaviour isn't empowering; it simply lowers her to the level of the people against whom she reacts. She really is no better than Dean, whether she's a survivor of sexual abuse or not. Anyone who combats violence with violence is no better than the original perpetrator. You, yourself, have noted the sapphic overtones in the Mitchell sisters' relationship. For all Ronnie reminds Roxy of her having protected Roxy from Archie's attentions, who's to say that she wouldn't like to give Roxy some sort of similar attention, herself? She seeks to control Roxy's lovelife by living vicariously through whatever relationship Roxy has as long as Ronnie has approved of the lover. She was averse to Aleks involving himself with Roxy until her attentions were diverted by Charlie. I have always said that the Mitchell sisters' ultimate comeuppance would come as a result of Ronnie raping Roxy and Roxy killing Ronnie, but no EP has the balls to work out that end. |
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| Mrs Peel | 14 Aug 2015, 11:51 Post #53 |
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Phil has stated that Ronnie is a liability for the Mitchell family, and he's right. Her killing of Carl and the ensuing cover-up means that if this murder is ever brought to light regarding police involvement, this could and would have serious repercussions for Phil, Sharon, Shirley, Charlie and Roxy. Phil's mentioned this numerous times. Her association with Vincent has also cost Phil half of one of the businesses he owns, and that association will come to a bloody end. Last week, within a minute, Buster's dialogue foreshadowed an eventualy end-by-death for both Dean and Vincent, and you can bet your bottom dollar that Ronnie will be involved in both, either directly or indirectly. This is a spent character played by an actress who is, less and less, involved with the programme other than it being a cash cow to support herself between other gigs, which hold her interest far more than EastEnders, at the moment. She should go. |
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| Forest11 | 14 Aug 2015, 14:07 Post #54 |
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I could see Roxy killing Ronnie but the first one is way too controversial for the BBC nowadays. Vincent is likely to stay for a couple of years I suspect and after Ronnie probably exits. Dean's exit ill likely be Shirley disowning him and finally realising the truth. |
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| Mrs Peel | 14 Aug 2015, 16:08 Post #55 |
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Vincent was introduced as a villain, and the actor who plays him confirmed as much. Although they are trying to make the character nuanced and showing a side of him wanting to be a good man, but conflicted by the purported evilness of his mother and his attraction to the sour-faced Ronnie, it's not working, because this portrayal is way above the ability of the actor portraying Vincent. There are two ways TPTB can take this character. One, if they intend for him to stick around awhile, is to forget about the villainous aspect of his character, and settle him down with the Fox-Truemans. A successful Afro-Carribbean businessman is something the show needs. The big mistake with this is that he's associated with Tameka Empson, an actress who tries to make a comedy out of everythign she does. If TPTB go the villain route, the character will have a shelf life, and he will most probably be killed off. There have been several instances of foreshadowing in dialogue referring to Dean dying, the most recent being earlier this week. Dean will most definitely be killed, and most probably, by Ronnie. Whatever the circumstances, if this happens, this will cause far more ructure with Shirley than anything Heather's death caused. This is Shirley's son, and it will be the second time a Mitchell has killed someone close to her. Edited by Mrs Peel, 14 Aug 2015, 16:11.
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| DirtyDen | 14 Aug 2015, 16:12 Post #56 |
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DirtyDen(ise)
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I completely disagree about Ronnie and Dean, both are multi layered and complex characters and the show is better for having them in it. If the show just had The Sonia and Les's of this world then the show would fail dramatically. |
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| MrJames | 14 Aug 2015, 18:28 Post #57 |
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She's not everyone's cup of tea but I got everything I needed from Veronica last night.
Edited by MrJames, 15 Aug 2015, 11:19.
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| Forest11 | 14 Aug 2015, 18:46 Post #58 |
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I can see Dean actually dying accidentally rather than the hands of Ronnie. For maximum drama some action causes by Mick or Linda just before will play its part. |
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| bensonhedges | 14 Aug 2015, 19:29 Post #59 |
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Hope not - he's sooo fit |
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| Desdemona | 15 Aug 2015, 09:15 Post #60 |
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I very much appreciate that EE presents us with a passionate relationship between sisters as an alternative to heterosexual romance. As a matter of fact, I prefer the homo-erotic dynamic between Ronnie and Roxy to the pseudo-lesbian couples a la Tina and Sonia because no man has ever or will ever come between the Mitchell sisters. Such a bond is quite subversive (and threatening) in EE's heteronormative world that can only envisage female characters as (male-defined) girlfriends, wives and/or mothers. As for Ronnie, she goes against expectations of femininity because she refuses passivity and victimisation. Her anger and violence are legitimate and she presents female viewers like me with an empowering role model in the face of male violence. I am sure we will see Ronnie, once again, saving Roxy from a dangerous 'romance'' with a rapist. Although I would prefer to see a variation on the dynamic. Maybe Roxy will finally come to her senses this and save her sister this time. |
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7:43 PM Jul 11