| Welcome to Walford Web, the online home of EastEnders' discussion since 1997. We cover EastEnders news, discussion and spoilers. Join the discussion and make your voice heard! We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're wondering what EastEnders is, click here to see what all the fuss is about. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| The Death of Lucy Beale; A Masterpiece or a Mistake? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: 17 Aug 2015, 22:53 (4,737 Views) | |
| The Other Slater Cousin | 17 Aug 2015, 22:53 Post #1 |
|
Okay, so Cindy's exit has gotten me thinking about the "Who Killed Lucy" plot again and the ramifications it has had. Over the past 16 months or so, I have been hooked on this plot. It's been heartbreaking. It's been interesting. It's been full of twists and turns and dragged in so many different characters. It's been a success. I went back tonight and was rewatching some of those scenes in the aftermath of Lucy's death, and quite honestly it is some of the most powerful material I have ever seen on television. Some spectacular performances and such a raw portrayal of grief. A masterpiece. It was this full family being torn apart completely. Lucy Beale's death gave an opportunity to show life, and how harsh it can be. But here we are now, and Number 45 is a lonely place. Ian, Jane and Bobby. The Beales have dwindled. To me, and I'm sure it's the same for so many, "the twins" were the first thing that came to mind when Ian was mentioned. Ian and his kids. They are essential to the character. And neither of them are there. The only child there to let Ian fulfil the role he works best in, as a father, is Bobby, and the fact that he is concealing a murder caused by this child means there is really no one for Ian to bounce off. Cindy was there, but often as an inconvenience, not as a surrogate daughter. And now she's gone too. And still, even now, when I think of Ian and what I found was his most interesting moments, his relationship with Lucy is up there. Lucy, the daughter of Ian's greatest love and his greatest enemy, a constant reminder of both of those aspects of his relationship with Cindy. They could hate each other, but you knew underneath it all, Lucy was his favourite and she wanted him to be proud of her. Something as simple as a father and daughter, but it was a relationship that could be thrust to the front of the show and still hold such high drama. So now I think that without Lucy, Ian has lost something that was his biggest asset. Just think of the many directions Lucy Beale could have gone in. A young businesswoman. A constant strive for success. A coldness, but a longing for love and acceptance underneath that. The best and worst of the two people she came from. The daughter of icons. In my mind, I always wanted to see her enter a "Grant and Sharon" type relationship. Toxic and heavy and dangerous, but with an understanding and real, raw love between them. How would she progress in life? Dealing with love, and eventually motherhood. I just felt that in many ways, Lucy paralleled young Sharon in many ways, but with more of an edge. Surely that's the makings of an icon in her own right now? There was something about the character that just captured me. Seeping with potential. And all I can think of is, was this potential worth more than what it was sacrificed for? Of course there is still Peter out there. A twin. He can really do anything Lucy can in terms of "Legacy character". But surely most would agree that there was never much to Peter. Not in the way there was with Lucy. He could be a Peter Barlow in the future and of course I'm not suggesting he is a bad character or doesn't have potential, but when I think of Peter, I see all the things Lucy could have been. So, all these months later, how do you all feel? Did what we get, which is a real masterstroke of a story, amount to more than what Lucy Beale could have been? I have to say I'm not sure. For all those years when I thought of a Kathy return, her role as a female influence in Lucy's life was one of the things that excited me the most. Now we miss out on that. All these years of Ian Beale we will hopefully have in the future, and I can't help but feel that without Lucy, a large amount of interesting and kitchen sink drama has been removed. There could be some really fascinating and fantastic material in the future with Peter or Steven or Cindy and (no doubt) with Bobby, but right now, with all that hollow space in the Beales house, I can't help but think I would have preferred seeing Lucy develop and whilst that might not have garnered sky rocket ratings, it would have given so much to EastEnders' first family. |
| "I loved it in the Olden Days because you talked more. There’s more action now. You know, we would do scenes in the Rovers of me, Bet and Doris Speed with a cup of coffee each before we opened the pub, talking about absolute rubbish. But it was something, and it was what people do." - Betty Driver | |
![]() |
|
| Michelle Fowler,Ice Skater | 17 Aug 2015, 23:05 Post #2 |
![]()
|
Who were the Beale/Fowlers-a family-a big one-one side was poor,one was well-off but they were family and they stood for each other,that's who the Beales are a family who support each other.In the beginning we had Lou,constantly telling Pauline and Arthur how to live their life,Ian,Kathy and Pete being the ones who got out,the family united over Mark disappearing and Michelle getting knocked up.As the family moved on,it just was full of dishonesty,Arthur affair,Pete's affair,Simon,Kathy's rape and Pete's reaction,Michelle and Den,Mark's HIV,everything fell apart,it wasn't the trusting family it was meant to be.After Michelle left,Pauline,Martin,Rebecca,Sonia,Pauline,Ian,(whichever wife) and his kids made up the family.Ian was his kids,he did everything for them,him losing a child is like losing a bit of Ian. With Lucy,EVERYTHING was wasted,there is so much gone down the drain,eating disorders,business,relationship,love,she is made up of Cindy and Ian that could mean so much to the character.I saw Lucy as Sharon(before they ruined her with Denny) a strong woman who spoke her views and didn't need men to get a strong position.If the reason to kill her off was buzz,rating,Kathy whatever..it wasn't worth it..Lucy was the future of the Beales..the Beale women,seeing as 'Chelle will never come back and I don't sense that with Jane.I love this story but for the price of Lucy..not worth it |
![]() |
|
| Shamelessness | 17 Aug 2015, 23:09 Post #3 |
![]()
|
I keep telling myself that Peter wouldn't have had the same impact. And I didn't like Hetti's acting style anyway. That's what gets me through the dark times. Surely Steven is crying out for a return now. |
| |
![]() |
|
| Mrs Peel | 17 Aug 2015, 23:09 Post #4 |
|
I think, whilst it's still interesting, as with the rape storyline, the EP is in danger of losing control of this. As the rape storyline ceased to be about Linda as soon as it was used as a plot device by which Mick discovered Shirley was his mother, this has stopped being about justice for Lucy and has become an exercise in how the Beales are desperate to cover their arses. "Protecting Bobby" is merely a euphemism for keeping Ian and Jane out of prison. Don't get me wrong - it's been fascinating to watch, but fascinating in the way rubbernecking a massive wreck on the motorway is. You don't want to look, but you can't help it. Originally, I do think Jane was all about protecting Bobby, and the reason behind that was proving that she was, indeed, a "real" mother. Whilst she was totally prepared to see Ian's brother cop the blame, especially when Phil was convinced enough to believe Ben's guilt, Carol's despair at Max's arrest and accusations, however, struck a nerve of guilt with her. A totally innocent man was about to be tried and sentenced for a murder he didn't commit. Initially, Ian had qualms of conscience, and at times it seemed as if he might be on the verge of a breakdown, showing manifestations of his earlier breakdown - scratching his arm and shuffling; but the moment the heat was off Ben and on Max, Ian was onside for sacrificing Max for Bobby. But with Ian, this isn't even about Bobby anymore. It's about saving his fat arse. When Jane was going to Carol's house to confess the whole thing, Ian's first reaction was "We'll lose everything!" It's fascinating to see the depths of moral depavaty to which the Beales descended, especially in the way they've treated Cindy. That made for very uncomfortable viewing - the psychological bullying of her regarding Beth, callously throwing her out when she ensured that Beth left the house and that the Beales didn't get her, playing good-cop-bad-cop to keep her onside. Cindy was suss enough to know that, deep down, the Beales don't really like her. For all Jane might try to be sincere and assure her of her undying affection, Cindy knows that the only reason they tolerate her is because she could blow their dirty little secret. That scene last week when Ian was lying through his putrid teeth, using fear and emotional manipulation to talk Cindy and Liam out of betraying their secret was one of the most uncomfortable and cruel scenes I've ever seen. I don't know what the way back for Ian is, if there be a way back. And I am also sure that Bobby knows exactly what he's done, yet he's basking in the comfort of his parents covering for him. Justifiably, this can only end with Bobby being taken into a young offenders' institution, and Jane is looking at prison for a long time; but so,. too, is Ian, and I've yet to figure out how they'll spare him that. By the way, there are far too many murderers skulking about the show at the moment, and it's becoming beyond a joke. |
![]() |
|
| AGavinIsMyLife | 17 Aug 2015, 23:14 Post #5 |
|
In terms of Lucy's potential alone, I think it's been worth it. I feel the show is quite adept at creating memorable female characters and although Lucy was in the unique position of having grown up in the show within a family that's been there since Day 1 and all the nuances that come with that, I feel she was dispensable. I'm worried about what this is doing to the Beales as a whole though. Bobby being the killer is fine but all this covering up and changing others lives as a consequence ruins the image in my mind of them, which was an essentially decent family. They'll never look at each other the same again, not to mention how the rest of the community will view them. Is that interesting; yes. Is it worth sacrificing a precious piece of normality EE doesn't have much of these days? I don't think so. I feel that decency underpins what you envisaged for the future for Lucy. It feels like that's all disintegrating rapidly and for what? To make Kathy's return that more bombastic? What happens after she's settled back in and the Beales are reviled by the rest of the Square? Do they just become like the Mitchells, a loathed presence on the Square? The Beales are going through a huge identity crisis and I'm uncomfortable with it. Edited by AGavinIsMyLife, 18 Aug 2015, 12:03.
|
![]() |
|
| The Other Slater Cousin | 18 Aug 2015, 00:40 Post #6 |
|
I like the idea of Peter and Lauren being a huge powercouple, so that's something that makes me glad in a way. But if they went for "Who Killed Peter", yes there wouldn't be the same tragedy as the "young dead blonde" visual, but it could have been a different entity, and still be powerful. A guilty Lucy over getting him involved in her coke habit. Maybe change the lead in a bit to make him and Lauren get together before his death, leaving her carrying his child. Ian and Jane and Bobby's roles could have stayed the same. Jane dragging his body. The strain and heaviness of it. Dragging it through the dirt. It feels just as powerful as her carrying Lucy like a baby, but in a different way. Imagine him leaving the house after hearing Ian say Lucy was "the one", and that's the last time Ian saw his son? I don't know. I just feel like Lucy had so much to give, and I can't help my mind wandering of what she could have been. Maybe someday NuNuPeter will be an amazing character rocking the Square and I'll feel better about it. Edited by The Other Slater Cousin, 18 Aug 2015, 00:43.
|
| "I loved it in the Olden Days because you talked more. There’s more action now. You know, we would do scenes in the Rovers of me, Bet and Doris Speed with a cup of coffee each before we opened the pub, talking about absolute rubbish. But it was something, and it was what people do." - Betty Driver | |
![]() |
|
| Mr Branning | 18 Aug 2015, 06:42 Post #7 |
|
I also think, given the state of the show at the time, we needed a lightning bolt like "Who Killed Lucy?". The show was in such an appalling mess and arguably nothing has been more pivotal to its success over the past year than this story. A huge sacrifice had to be made to reignite the show again and Lucy was that sacrifice. It also helps that Hetti wasn't amazing, and we've seen the bitchy girl with daddy issues done with Janine. I'm really interested on where this secret will take Peter in years to come. And somehow Emma saying, "I know you killed Peter" doesn't quite have the same ring to it... |
| |
![]() |
|
| Desdemona | 18 Aug 2015, 08:14 Post #8 |
|
the Lucy murder storyline is a huge gamble that has taken EE into unknown territory and while the initial human drama (Peter and Ian struggling with loss) was heartbreaking, it certainly looks as if the Beale family has been sacrificed to a relentless horror show that will drag on forever. Now that Cindy is gone, all we are left with is a cynical parody of the nuclear family (consisting of Ian, Jane and the little psycho they are nurturing) Edited by Desdemona, 18 Aug 2015, 08:20.
|
![]() |
|
| ian | 18 Aug 2015, 08:50 Post #9 |
|
The whole story was great until Ian became the villain of the piece. Jane was always quite annoying, and though Laurie is a great actress, she was also always quite disposable. But Ian IS EastEnders. And in the eyes of many viewers, myself included, he has become irredeemable. Edited by ian, 18 Aug 2015, 08:51.
|
![]() |
|
| Michelle Fowler | 18 Aug 2015, 09:25 Post #10 |
![]()
Michelle Fowler
|
I disliked Hetti as an actress and felt because of this the Lucy character was dispensable. I've been really enjoying this storyline until the last couple of weeks where we have seen the demonisation of the iconic Ian Beale and the unrealistic twist to the story that Liam Butcher knows who the killer is and he hasn't told his Nan who he is so close to, or even Ricky and Bianca who he's been in recent telephone contact with. I don't believe Lauren hasn't been told that her Dad is in prison charged with a murder which she knows he didn't commit. The latest twists are spoiling what has been one of Eastenders best ever storylines. |
![]() |
|
| Mrs Peel | 18 Aug 2015, 16:10 Post #11 |
|
When DTC took over, the show had 3 major ingenues, vying for central place - Lauren, Lucy and Whitney. That was too many of one demographic, so I always had the feeling that one would go. DTC chose the weakest actress. He was never going to choose Whitney, because she's his creation, and Lauren was one of the few successes, in recast, that Kirkwood had. Having said that, I thought he'd send Lucy away - to the US to stay with Michelle or to New Zealand - only to return in 5 years' time, recast and with a stronger actress. The character was an important legacy character and had such potential, especially in the wake of Janine's departure, to mark her card as the resident bitch. So I was surprised he killed her off. The storyline, with its twists and turns, is threatening to veer a bit out of control, and its resolution has to be seen as people accepting responsibility for what they did and caused and punishment should entail. There simply are too many people, murderers aside, who have committed very serious crimes, swanning about the Square at the moment. What the show has done is to show up the glaring, but consistent, faults and foibles of the show's more established characters, as well as their definition of family. For example, it's perfectly believable that Abi would not have spoken with Tanya for months and, thus, would be totally unaware that Cora wasn't living with her. It woud be equally unbelievable that no one had bothered to apprise Lauren of Max's current situation, much less, what he's endured for the past few months. Quite simply, Max's family was a family only if and when they were in physical sight of one another. Out of sight and out of mind. The Brannings' ethos is selfishness. They always put themselves first. Lauren is pregnant and about to give birth, so she's focusing on her child and figuring no news is good news. We already ascertained last week that Abi's driving force in grassing up her dad and investing herself in a relationship that's going to end in major tears is pure jealousy. Phil Mitchell had his family loyalties tested when confronted with the fact that his son was well if not of hurting, then of killing someone again, and for that reason, he was willing to compromise his freedom. At that point, when the likes of Billy and the putrid essence that is Ronnie going against Phil because Phil actually was abiding by the law and shopping Ben. At that point, we saw the utter amorality within their soulse. And, by the way, Billy shopped Jay, but for a different reason. As far as the Beales go, we've had Cindy throw some home truths in their faces which made them distinctly uncomfortable. Jane is "protecting" Bobby to validate her status as a mother, but as Peter and Cindy have told her on occasion, she's no one's mother. Cindy has upbraided Ian on his cowardice and she sees through the fact that he dislikes her and he's punching down in using her as a device by which he can gain revenge on her long-dead mother, who - ironically - was the lov of his life. Ian is petty, vindictive, cruel and very Oedipal. If this ends with Jane in prison and Bobby in a secure unit, Ian will be reunited with his mother, which is what he wants anyway, I think. In the middle of all of this is Sharon, who's covered for murderers before withouth blinking, but never has she had to remain quiet, protecting a killer, when she's watching an innocent man's life destroyed. |
![]() |
|
| Michelle Fowler,Ice Skater | 18 Aug 2015, 16:19 Post #12 |
![]()
|
I've got a random idea,but when Lucy left to Devon in 2010,maybe she could have been around 2-3 months pregnant and that is why she left and after the birth she gave the baby up for adoption OR when Lucy came back she said Peter was with her friend Leanne,maybe she has a mini Peter.I think Lucy should've become pregnant in her final year,with a successful business,family,friends and a child (for the new generation) we see she values herself,everyone loves her and Lucy gets on with her life.Then she is murdered,it would add a bit more sorrow and sort of like Cindy leaving Lucy and the death should've been kept secret |
![]() |
|
| Fehnder | 18 Aug 2015, 19:16 Post #13 |
|
I'm still reserving judgement. It's done amazingly in terms of the scenes its generated but I can't help feeling this has ruined the characters of Ian and Jane. A couple who could have been iconic and long term in the show until the actors were old and grey. |
| |
![]() |
|
| Mormon Girl | 18 Aug 2015, 20:05 Post #14 |
|
I got inside soap magazine today and Lorna Fitzgerald said this: I reckon the viewers will be surprised by the outcome of Max's murder trial," reckons Lorna. "Its not as straight forward as Abi dobbing him in - so much more is revealed. There are lots of twists and turns in the story, and the repercussions aren't necessarily what you might expect. Abi isn't going to be able to reverse what she does and come back from it |
![]() |
|
| ChrissieW | 18 Aug 2015, 21:28 Post #15 |
|
I've changed my stance on this a few times and I guess I think until the story has drawn to its conclusion and perhaps more importantly until we can see where the Beale family are left standing at the end, its hard to say whether or not it was worth it. From a marketing perspective - and Live Week amongst other things was a huge triumph in that sense - it had to be Lucy; the beautiful, young blonde girl a la Twin Peaks. Creatively perhaps it still had to be her but I always viewed her as the "legacy" child with the most potential. Hetti could easily have been replaced and although Lucy may have wound up covering similar territory to Janine, I think our familiarity with her mother; a proper EastEnders icon, gave her something extra even Janine didn't have. A young Cindy but with Ian's business acumen and a troubled childhood we'd watched develop with our very own eyes was definitely an interesting proposition. It may turn out to be the making of Peter, and I'd welcome an interesting complex young man on the show but Peter forever the yin to Lucy's yang could also have been interesting. |
![]() |
|
| Eastend boy | 18 Aug 2015, 22:05 Post #16 |
![]()
|
I was disappointed when I heard that Dominic Treadwell Collins was to axe the character of Lucy Beale, with Lola and Whitney she was the only young female character I truly rated on the show, I have always liked Peter as a character and as the ordinary twin but she was the more interesting twin who was destined to follow in Sharon and Janine's footsteps as the next business alpha female on the square with a depth and vunerabilty underneath the steely mask, I became pathetically gripped with the slim prospect some ee producer would not be shallow and predictable enough to not capitilize on the potential and strong on screen chemistry Jamie Borthwick had with both actresses that portrayed Lucy and finnally I always thought out of Ian's kids Lucy had the most interesting dynamic with Ian, so I guess with all said above I HAVE ANSWERED THE THREAD'S QUESTION. |
![]() |
|
| KathleenSlater | 19 Aug 2015, 14:25 Post #17 |
|
Sharon knows about Bobby killing Lucy but she's not going to tell the police is she? Sharon is usually a moralistic woman but she is going to let Max rot in jail? That's out of character. |
![]() |
|
| The Other Slater Cousin | 19 Aug 2015, 15:30 Post #18 |
|
Sharon's also a mother. She would understand why Jane did what she did and whether or not she has always been a woman with strong morals, this isn't a simple cut and dry situation. Sharon would be torn as to whether she was willing to let an innocent man go to jail or to ruin her best friend's child's life. |
| "I loved it in the Olden Days because you talked more. There’s more action now. You know, we would do scenes in the Rovers of me, Bet and Doris Speed with a cup of coffee each before we opened the pub, talking about absolute rubbish. But it was something, and it was what people do." - Betty Driver | |
![]() |
|
| Eastend boy | 19 Aug 2015, 16:53 Post #19 |
![]()
|
This storyline has totally destroyed Ian as a character I am afraid there is no going back for him now. |
![]() |
|
| *Betty* | 19 Aug 2015, 22:43 Post #20 |
![]() ![]()
|
I think they have played it pitch perfect. Ian may seem irredeemable now, but when Kathy walks through that door... I aired my concerns at the beginning of this story but I can't deny just how fantastic it has been. Yes the Beales are falling apart now, but their is a reason for that. They will eventually regroup and they will have this big hole in the middle of them which will create drama for a long time. Lucy could have been a legend, but her death has made for a legendary story and probably led to some of the biggest moments in the shows history for a long, long time with the Peter/Ian scenes outside the Vic, Bobby reveal, Kathy return and I feel like Max's trial and Ian's suicide attempt are going to be defining moments for the show. And I'm sure Christmas will be spectacular. |
| |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · EastEnders Current & Future · Next Topic » |















7:42 PM Jul 11