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| Ronnie - is she past her sell by date? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 8 Sep 2015, 16:32 (7,037 Views) | |
| Ross | 9 Sep 2015, 16:40 Post #61 |
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I'm in the kitchen eating a biscuit
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He was going to rape her in his flat, not in the garage. |
Massive thanks to NickM for this wonderful signature! ![]()
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| SamWomackFan1 | 9 Sep 2015, 16:43 Post #62 |
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He didnt end up raping her in the flat so he thought he would try in the garage. Completely she was petrified so she defended herself as would anyone! |
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| alisonx | 9 Sep 2015, 16:48 Post #63 |
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If you watch the clip, he still had his hand gripped onto her arm when he put the bag into the boot. Two seconds previous he had his mouth all over her and was completely aggressive towards her. Whether he did plan to go further after this point or not, Ronnie would have been scared shitless and would have believed that he was going to go further. Hence her next action, made in self defence. |
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| Jade | 9 Sep 2015, 17:42 Post #64 |
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I think some don't understand the law. Had she killed him and called an ambulance in her flat the self defence theory may stand the garage one does not. I do not think anyone would stand and watch someone's dead body whom the killed be crushed. That's pretty twisted. Then when his family try to get justice have his brother beaten to a pulp and threaten his mother plus the rest of the family. Try getting a jury to believe self defense to all those factors if you want to bring the past actions into it. Don't forget she does play victim too remember when she on purpose lied about Damien trying to rape her? I still think a route where she becomes inappropriate with Roxy would not only be believable but interesting on that darker Ronnie. DTC said she was a villain so we don't need to pretend she isn't. That's his vision for her and her psychopathic traits defiantly fit that. I actually love some soap villains not everyone needs to be a saint. |
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Your approval is neither desired nor required. Julia Smith "We decided to go for a realistic, fairly outspoken type of drama which could encompass stories about homosexuality, rape, unemployment, racial prejudice, etc., in a believable context. Above all, we wanted realism". | |
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| Jade | 9 Sep 2015, 17:48 Post #65 |
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I understand where your coming from and like I said I cant not speak for others but I clarified it as it is relevant and just factually true. Many people get offended as they think of if someone is a victim your saying they are likely to be an abuser and of course nobody means that at all, most do not. But those who are abusers almost always have had some sort of abuse in their past. In our world many like to see people who do evil things as monsters but its more complicated then that, many themselves have suffered big part of why they became as twisted as they did. Phil is a great example of being a product of his abusive upbringing. He even admitted he wished Ben had been a girl as he didn't want to end up like his father who was an abusive violent drunk. Doesn't make it any better but it does make it very realistic. |
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Your approval is neither desired nor required. Julia Smith "We decided to go for a realistic, fairly outspoken type of drama which could encompass stories about homosexuality, rape, unemployment, racial prejudice, etc., in a believable context. Above all, we wanted realism". | |
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| Jade | 9 Sep 2015, 17:53 Post #66 |
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How dare you say that to me. What a disgusting post. Like a few I am sick of your bigotry and just because I don't like violence regardless of the sex doesn't mean I believe women should drop their knickers to get raped. I have been trolled in the past, called names etc. But this is another level. Seriously I don't care if this gets me banned your as bad as any racist, homophobe or other bigot. Oh and in any civilised society vigilante justice is not considered acceptable. Edited by Jade, 9 Sep 2015, 17:59.
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Your approval is neither desired nor required. Julia Smith "We decided to go for a realistic, fairly outspoken type of drama which could encompass stories about homosexuality, rape, unemployment, racial prejudice, etc., in a believable context. Above all, we wanted realism". | |
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| MrSunshine | 9 Sep 2015, 20:52 Post #67 |
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I agree. Ronnie is a coward but she's not a rapist. |
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| MrSunshine | 9 Sep 2015, 21:04 Post #68 |
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This topic has got a bit out of control. It shows a great deal of passion about such sensitive subjects but remember it's difficult to read tone so lets not attack each other. |
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| Mrs Peel | 9 Sep 2015, 21:29 Post #69 |
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I have no sympathy for either Ronnie or Dean. One has killed, the other has raped. BOTH are control freaks. Rape is all about control, and Ronnie seeks to control Roxy to the point that Ronnie picks and chooses Roxy's sexual partners and determines when her sister's affairs begin and end, with Roxy always returning to Ronnie in the end and always regressing to child-like behaviour. Roxy's recited mmantra of "No man will ever come between us" now takes on a creepy tone, because it doesn't apply to the men she's shared with Ronnie, it means any man. The sapphic-quasi-incestuous scene when a drunken Roxy climbed into the hospital bed with Ronnie wasn't a throwback to 2 innocent kids of 10 and 7 sharing a cuddle, it sent out a very nuanced message, especially about Ronnie. Make no mistake - Ronnie is as filthy dirty as Dean, and neither one has any right to sit in judgement of the other. The people who make excuses for Dean and the people who make excuses for Ronnie might want to think about their common ground. |
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| Mrs Peel | 9 Sep 2015, 21:39 Post #70 |
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Your second sentence contradicts your first. If this is subjective, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Self-defense is Janine killing Michael, who had plotted to kill her and would have done so, had she not stabbed him. Self-defense was New Year's Eve, when Carl did attempt to assault Ronnie; but attacking someone from behind when they are in a near-supine position is neither self-defense nor justified. |
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| Holly | 9 Sep 2015, 21:40 Post #71 |
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Agreed. It's a question that can't really be answered, we all have such different viewpoints and now we're just bickering and going round in circles. Some like her, some don't, that's fair enough, but now we're at the point where people are criticising others points of view and it's getting insulting. Let's just agree to disagree. |
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| Jade | 9 Sep 2015, 21:47 Post #72 |
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I am usually happy to agree to disagree on most debates but that disgusting post directed at me was far beyond something ANY member should have to be spoken too. I have had many debates on here even mini quarrels never in my time have I found a post quite as vile and disgusting as that one. So I wont be told off and usually I stop once it gets derailed being told that I should suggest a woman takes her knickers off to get raped is far beyond a little insulting, libellous and basically hate speech. There was no excuse or defense for it. I am usually one of the first to say lets move on or agree to disagree but that wasn't a debate that was something different. Sorry to anyone else who wasn't involved but I am rightly furious. Edited by Jade, 9 Sep 2015, 21:50.
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Your approval is neither desired nor required. Julia Smith "We decided to go for a realistic, fairly outspoken type of drama which could encompass stories about homosexuality, rape, unemployment, racial prejudice, etc., in a believable context. Above all, we wanted realism". | |
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| Mrs Peel | 9 Sep 2015, 21:52 Post #73 |
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Ronnie has NO right to sit in judgement of Dean. They are as bad as one another, and it's a pretty warped view to say someone should take the law into their own hands and mete frontier justice. Dean deserves to be imprisoned for what he did, but Ronnie has no moral authority to decide whether he lives or dies. Stacey used that excuse of killing Archie because he raped her to Luke, who told her she still had no right to take his life. Oh, wait. Luke was a man. Dennis Rickman killed a very bad man in an execution-style killing, but he had no more right to do so than Danny Moon did, acting on Jonnie Allen's orders. Dean needs punishment, but so does Ronnie. I'm not defending either of them. I hope they both get their just karma. |
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| SamWomackFan1 | 9 Sep 2015, 22:02 Post #74 |
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In my opinion it was self defence like many other people think. Samantha Womack was amazing in those scenes! She is one talented woman who deserves more credit!!
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| Jade | 9 Sep 2015, 22:09 Post #75 |
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In legal sense it was not self defense. Had she killed him in the flat and called an ambulance that would be different but what we saw was not legally self defense. Now I am someone who doesn't even want Ronnie axed just different direction to what we are getting but she did commit more that one offense that day. |
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Your approval is neither desired nor required. Julia Smith "We decided to go for a realistic, fairly outspoken type of drama which could encompass stories about homosexuality, rape, unemployment, racial prejudice, etc., in a believable context. Above all, we wanted realism". | |
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| Kirsty | 9 Sep 2015, 22:18 Post #76 |
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Eyes up, Guardian.
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Can we keep it civil please, and try and be aware that this is a sensitive subject and people are likely to have strong opinions - the less volatile we can keep the discussion, the better. |
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| MrSunshine | 9 Sep 2015, 22:27 Post #77 |
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I do think Ronnie commited a crime but murder wasn't it. She could have ran from Carl but this is a woman who holds so much anger over her incredibly shit life that she reacted to his sexual advances by smashing him with a car boot lid. It was quick. Afterwards she sobbed and then shat herself and got rid of the body. She then planted evidence on Phil. So I do agree that she is a coward but she is not a murderer. As I've always said her guilt lies in disposing the body instead of calling the police. |
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| alisonx | 9 Sep 2015, 22:27 Post #78 |
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If she had phoned an ambulance after killing him in the arches, she could have easily claimed self defence. A good barrister would be able to successfully convince the jury that she used reasonable force in the circumstances as she believed them to be. Given what had just happened seconds previous when he got physical with her, her mistake would be regarded as a reasonable mistake to make in the circumstances would it not? The whole car crushing incident afterwards is obviously a completely different story, which even I can not defend. That comes down to the choice of the writers who wanted to open up the villainous side to the character. It makes the whole killing somewhat ambiguous - whilst the actual killing will always be in my opinion an act of self defence, what she did to the body afterwards cannot be excused. But that's Ronnie for ya. |
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| Mrs Peel | 9 Sep 2015, 22:51 Post #79 |
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Here's the same situation in reverse. I just watched Steve's killing of Saskia from 1999.I recommend people who are justifying Ronnie's killing of Carl as self-defense. This was totally a killing done initially in self-defense. Saskia had walloped Steve over the head with - what else? - a champagne bottle. It was Saskia who initiated physical violence and took advantage of Steve's weakened state to try to strangle him with his tie. Why? Because he had split with her and moved on, and she refused to let go. When Matthew Rose entered the room and pulled her off Steve, she attacked Matthew with a metal kettle. Steve grabbed the first thing to hand - a marble ashtray - and whacked her. Did he mean to kill her? No. Had he called the police then, there would have been enough witnesses and forensic evidence to prove self-defense. But he didn't. He put her body in a bin bag and coerced Matthew into helping him dispose of the body. At that point, the deed transcends into something else. |
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| MrSunshine | 9 Sep 2015, 22:55 Post #80 |
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Yes it does but it's not murder. |
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7:40 PM Jul 11