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Kathy: The Good, The Bad and the Ugly
Topic Started: 14 Sep 2015, 19:46 (1,817 Views)
Sey
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Amidst all the Kathy and Gavin shenanigans I thought it'd be a good idea to have a separate thread discussing what we like and dislike about the return in an honest, open and a friendly way. We may not all agree on the return or the overarching plot surrounding it but I'm sure we can all agree there is a definite buzz at the moment which hasn't been felt since the 30th.

The Good


  • Kathy is an original cast-member and is lucky enough to be connected to most of the major clans throughout the history of the show. With Stacey having Martin's baby it could even be argued that has a tenuous link to the Slater's; her great nephew right?
  • Adam has grown up on the show and is arguably one of the best actors in the cast now, so to give him half of his original support network back is very interesting for fans of Ian. I am fascinated by how he will react to her.
  • Ben has also become a very good character over the last 5 years. Many say that killing her off to bring in Ben was a mistake and I think a lot of the Ben-hate stemmed from that, but in a world 5 years removed from Charlie Jones and Kathy very much alive and well, I wonder how people will feel now?
  • Gavin is a boss. The Sharon connection was joked about in the early 2000s but as of the Kathy reveal and Gavin confirmation all happening at the same time, it didn't take us long to connect the dots.


The Bad


  • Gillian isn't the strongest actress I'm afraid and she seems to be even worse now than ever. I am willing to give her time to find her feet again though.
  • The credibility of the show is being questioned by many. A return from the dead is very difficult to pull off believably.
  • Kathy, in my opinion, hasn't been a good character for over 20 years. I think from her association with Phil onwards she became quite snobby and rude.
  • Gillian said she sees Kathy is being the next Ronnie. Ugh.


The Ugly

This section is pretty much looking at retcons/events that don't add up.

  • Phil knowing for 3 years. I don't like it and it takes away from a lot of his interactions with Ben and Ian since. And it doesn't add up that on the anniversary he suddenly acted like he has just found out. I honestly think this detail wasn't planned back then.
  • The fake death. The day Kathy faked her death, Ian was about to leave for South Africa. She has invited him to stay with her. Why would she invite him out there if she knew what she was going to do?
  • Kathy and Gavin visited Angie in the early 2000s during the time when Sharon was there. I am assuming this will either be ignored or they will explain that Sharon was away at the time.



That's it for now. I feel I have forgotten a few so I will be sure to add more later. Share your thoughts everyone! :D
Edited by Sey, 14 Sep 2015, 19:53.
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McFudd
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This is brilliant and I love it. Will post my thoughts tonight as I'm doing some errands at the moment.

When did Gillian say that she wants Kathy to be the next Ronnie? Can someone send me the article? :)
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MrSunshine
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I agree with absolutely everything EXCEPT I don't think Gillian's a bad actress. I think she's been very good from what we've seen so far and I already prefer Kathy to Sharon despite the fact that I've only known Kathy from watching past episodes and have seen Sharon in action.
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Jade
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Sey exactly my thoughts nuff said.[
McFudd
14 Sep 2015, 19:51
This is brilliant and I love it. Will post my thoughts tonight as I'm doing some errands at the moment.

When did Gillian say that she wants Kathy to be the next Ronnie? Can someone send me the article? :)
http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/04/eastenders-spoilers-12-thrilling-plot-twists-to-keep-an-eye-out-for-in-walford-this-autumn-5372560/
Read the pink box at the bottom quote from Gillian

"I want more fights. I want to be another Ronnie."
So NOT Kathy.

Edited by Jade, 14 Sep 2015, 20:47.
Your approval is neither desired nor required.

Julia Smith "We decided to go for a realistic, fairly outspoken type of drama which could encompass stories about homosexuality, rape, unemployment, racial prejudice, etc., in a believable context. Above all, we wanted realism".

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Shamelessness
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I'm looking forward to a Kathy and Martin scene. She's his godmother.

I think people's exception to Ben as a character was because Kathy was killed off for Charlie Jones. If the actor had been decent and not so punchable, I think her "death" would've been more palatable.

I agree that Phil knowing for 3 years is a disappointment. It doesn't add up with hat he "found out" in Live Week.

The only time I've ever heard references to Kathy and Gavin visiting Angie is on here. I don't remember it being mentioned. I'd be interested to see exactly when it was said because I'm not convinced it's true.
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Professor Plum
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I want Kathy to become the next Pat. We so need a "go-to" character. I dont want her becoming a Ronnie. That character has a shelf life. We want longevity.

on a side note. I thought when Ian returned with Ben, he said he had seen the body??
Just livin' in perfect New Zealand!
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Mrs Peel
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Shamelessness
14 Sep 2015, 20:52
The only time I've ever heard references to Kathy and Gavin visiting Angie is on here. I don't remember it being mentioned. I'd be interested to see exactly when it was said because I'm not convinced it's true.
I don't remember this at all. Kathy and Gavin got together in 2000. Angie died in the Spring of 2002, from cirrhosis of the liver, acute alcoholism. Sharon went home to nurse her in her final months. Angie was ill for a couple of years before that, acting erratically and needing Sharon's care and attention, although she was also involved with the forgettable Ross at that time.

So if Kathy and Gavin visited Angie around this time, they would have found a very ill woman. Sharon would surely have referenced this.

The trip I do remember is the trip to South Africa shortly after Lisa left Mark to live with Phil, taking Louise. Peggy, Phil, Lisa and Louise travelled to South Africa so Ben could be introduced to his younger sister. This would have been in early 2002, possibly when Sharon was in Florida tending Angie in her last days.

On another note, I don't like Taylforth's overt desire for Kathy to be more like Ronnie. Bad, bad, bad. She and Bonnie Langford have put out some strange sayings/ideas since joining - Taylforth obliquely hinging/suggesting an affair with Phil, Langford going on about a cougar affair with Martin Fowler. I guess you have to remember that a lot of time actors don't always get what they want. Letitia Dean always wanted Sharon and Shirley to be best friends, and Ross Kemp always wanted more exploration of Grant as a young single father trying to cope, and they wanted to rush his character right into another relationship.

There are enough psychopaths wafting around Walford now without Kathy smacking her way around the Square.
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Planck
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With regard to your ugly section, specifically the bit about Kathy asking Ian to come to South Africa, judging by last nights episode it looked like Kathy didn't know she was about to fake her death.
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Jamie Fowler
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I think Ian took the kids to see Kathy in South Africa in 2004-ish time? They were gone for about a month and then Lucy and Peter came back from South Africa with Melissa Suffield and Thomas Law's heads?
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Mrs Peel
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Mitchells 42
16 Sep 2015, 15:56
I think Ian took the kids to see Kathy in South Africa in 2004-ish time? They were gone for about a month and then Lucy and Peter came back from South Africa with Melissa Suffield and Thomas Law's heads?
Ian took the kids to visit there in 2004ish. A few years before that Phil, Lisa, Peggy and Louise visited shortly after Lisa brought Louise to live with the Mitchells, so Ben could meet his younger sister.
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Jamie Fowler
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I remember Ian was meant to be going again when Kathy "died", I think he may have been planning to take Jane (and the kids) so they could meet

I really miss Pat now. She still has so many strong connections. She could've been a big part of Who Killed Lucy?
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Mr Branning
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I can only imagine where Pat would have slotted into Kathy's return story.

I can feel a Les "AAAAAAAAAH!" coming on...
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Mrs Peel
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Mitchells 42
16 Sep 2015, 16:15
I remember Ian was meant to be going again when Kathy "died", I think he may have been planning to take Jane (and the kids) so they could meet

I really miss Pat now. She still has so many strong connections. She could've been a big part of Who Killed Lucy?
Ian was going on his own. He never took Jane anywhere. I remember she got pretty put out when he booked one ticket, as he was relying on her to remain at home and mind the kids and the businesses. Jane was pretty much in skivvy mode then. He also buggered off on his own to celebrate Sharon's 40th in the States.
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